tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20796627.post2044996728214234462..comments2024-03-17T02:12:53.713-05:00Comments on POD People: Thoughts on Bullshit Arbitrary Writing Rules -- c.anne.gardnerveingloryhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03709708573358649383noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20796627.post-36267375801973244902010-07-10T11:38:02.654-05:002010-07-10T11:38:02.654-05:00No sorry, I don't see how this is "tiltin...No sorry, I don't see how this is "tilting." As I made perfectly clear in the article: <br /><br />Mostly new authors are told to pick either past or present and to stay within the tense ranges for those two, but in actuality there are at least thirty of them, tenses that is, and it's good to know the basic six and how to move between them. Purdue University has an easy to understand guide for when you are trying to figure out when and how to shift tense. <br />And...<br />So this is just another one of those rules that has been distorted over time by people who don't understand it yet feel the need to shove it down everyone else's throat. No wonder so many new authors get confused. Feel free to shift tense [when appropriate] for effect, [but make sure you do it right and do it subtly.]<br />--<br />I never said to ignore the "real" rules. Writing is about learning the craft, not about blindly following some made up writing conventions.Cheryl Anne Gardnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12564041914501542048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20796627.post-62459358850222257622010-07-08T17:44:16.481-05:002010-07-08T17:44:16.481-05:00I agree with what Chris and the others are saying....I agree with what Chris and the others are saying. This is not an inherently bad rule if the reason it is being enforced is to save a relatively inexperienced author from blowing his toes off with the Style Gun. People who already have a good command of the language and are able to do things like shift tenses without dropping whole sentences on the floor are already beyond such hand-holding, so honestly this comes off as tilting at an already-battered windmill.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20796627.post-35321549751176699282010-07-08T13:12:33.149-05:002010-07-08T13:12:33.149-05:00But we should be wary about confusing new authors....But we should be wary about confusing new authors. We need to distinguish between correct grammatical usage and a writing rule that isn't really a rule to begin with. <br /><br />That's the point I am trying to make. Every novice author needs to learn proper grammar, once they know that, then there won't be a problem. When to shift tenses will become intuitive, as it should be.<br /><br />Made up writing rules like this actually do more harm than good. Following some made up rule is no substitute for actually learning the real craft, which includes proper grammar.Cheryl Anne Gardnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12564041914501542048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20796627.post-58588095512350630842010-07-08T11:42:48.209-05:002010-07-08T11:42:48.209-05:00I don't think that maintaining a consistent ve...I don't think that maintaining a consistent verb tense is either "bullshit" or "arbitrary" for <i>novices</i>. As Chris pointed out, "beginning writers have no idea what they are doing". I know I didn't. There's enough of a learning curve for beginners to master when they're writing their first novel, that playing around with verb tense can wait. So I believe it's sound advice for them. <br /><br />For experienced writers, sure, go for it.DEDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07266406676643270732noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20796627.post-18187133285771911352010-07-08T10:25:42.574-05:002010-07-08T10:25:42.574-05:00Oh yes, I so agree Chris. I have seen some of the ...Oh yes, I so agree Chris. I have seen some of the "not pretty" stuff. You gotta know how to use the verb tenses properly before you do anything. That applies to all grammar and writing techniques.<br /><br />But I can safely say, that shift in Flying was so subtle, I doubt the average reader noticed it at all.Cheryl Anne Gardnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12564041914501542048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20796627.post-87207289041296336702010-07-08T09:36:44.153-05:002010-07-08T09:36:44.153-05:00It's okay to break the rules if you know that ...It's okay to break the rules <b>if you know that you're breaking them</b>. Too many beginning writers have no idea what they are doing, and the results aren't pretty.Chris Gerribhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09484367221527860100noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20796627.post-75421860634090119592010-07-08T07:51:59.724-05:002010-07-08T07:51:59.724-05:00I happen to like first person a lot for certain si...I happen to like first person a lot for certain situations, especially when psychological intimacy is needed. I also like a close third person as well. I rarely use the omniscient third because I think that works better for epic stories with lots and lots of characters. I don't write that sort of book, so generally I stick with first or a close third for all my stories. <br /><br />I am re-reading Dorian Gray right now and the majority of the book is in a close third but the POV shifts continuously, sometimes from paragraph to paragraph -- head hopping -- as the dummy books would call it. And again, this is another of those Bullshit rules.Cheryl Anne Gardnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12564041914501542048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20796627.post-17846522228015405512010-07-08T07:28:45.516-05:002010-07-08T07:28:45.516-05:00I always think of this "rule" when I sta...I always think of this "rule" when I start out writing. I tend to write what feels natural, even though it may be wrong, and then clean up the verb tense when I go back and reread what I wrote. It's funny you mentioned this today because I was actually just "checking my verbs" this morning.<br /><br />Another argument is the whole 1st person - 3rd person debate. I've always heard a book should be from one point of view or the other, not both. 1st person is what I prefer to write in, but I always hear it's the more passive voice. But I usually like one character to tell the story, and not always tell the truth, or not always know what's true. To me, a 3rd person (unknown) narrator should know all.<br /><br />Gillian Flynn's Dark Places, which you and I were talking about this week, does a good job of using both. She writes in 1st person in one chapter when telling the story from her lead character, then switches to 3rd person in the next when writing from someone else's voice. It's done very well and just works, and like verb tense, it just feels natural. <br /><br />Good post! I'm glad you brought this up.<br /><br />-ShannonShannon Yarbroughhttp://www.shannonyarbrough.comnoreply@blogger.com